Discussion

9 comments for “I Hate You KimiKiss… Why Must You Torment Me Like This? ;__;”

1. 

   Looks like I need to go hunt to Tokyo Marble Chocolate. Yay for another Kouichi X (Mao + Yuumi) supporter! He’s proven himself to be a worthy lead of both their loves. I was especially approving when he spoke his mind about his worry for Mao after the show. It spoke vols about the level of trust and communication the couple has. But also showed that Kouichi has yet to view Mao romantically. Anyhow, ep 16 is upping the ante with Mao trying to bury her feelings with Kai. A terrible thing to do but a common mistake many are guilty off Can’t wait to see how Mao’s conditions comes back to bite her in the rear

   As for Asuka, I think her reaction towards Eriko is reasonable since it’s hurting a most precious person. I’d be angry with Eriko’s insensitivity myself

   Posted by Stripey | January 31, 2008, 12:35 pm
2. 

   Nice entry, usagijen!

   I’ll take it upon me to continue the “defend Eriko” line, as a secondary take on your more Asuka-centric (but still pretty fair) version.

   > With her dead silence in episode 15, and her
   > decision to ignore Kazuki’s calls, we can see how
   > she’s not simply experiencing feelings of jealousy.
   > Yes, she might have become a little insecure,
   > seeing how close Kazuki and Asuka were during
   > the soccer match.

   Mhhh… I’d say “insecure” is the wrong word. Unless I misunderstand you (please correct me then), this would imply that she perceives Asuka as a “threat” to her. That however would require that she consciously considers Kazuki as her possession, as someone she could “lose”. But I doubt that this is how she consciously sees it.

   Look at it from this angle: The experiment started as a way to find out something about love and romance. Kazuki always was an experiment assistant, but never a conscious _target_ for any romantic wishes from her side. However, over the time, this changed. Just like she admitted in the hide-and-seek episode: She doesn’t understand her upwelling feelings… “but it doesn’t feel bad”. She was beginning to fall in love a bit without realizing what this really means. And with it, she began to gradually open up.

   Upon seeing Asuka together with Kazuki, this changed however. She dislikes what she sees, but she doesn’t understand why (this is my take). She does NOT see herself as Kazuki’s girlfriend, but it’s unpleasant to see him together with Asuka - in other words, she’s feeling jealousy without understanding the reason. And this is _confusing_ her, and causing her to stay away from the phone. Things suddenly DO feel bad, she doesn’t understand why, and this is why she’s avoiding contact.

   > But more than that, I think what she realized is
   > how she might just be a burden to him, and
   > perhaps his relationship with Asuka, seeing how
   > he doesn’t seem as happy when he’s with her.

   Nope. Not there. The “oh, might I be hurting him with this??” realization came when Asuka grabbed and shook her later. Rewatch the scene, with Eriko’s eyes going wide in shock. She’s never seen things from this angle before, and her general honest-blunt disposition made her agree with Asuka’s allegation.

   My point is that Eriko doesn’t SEE herself in a contest for Kazuki. She might _feel_ jealousy, but she does NOT consider Kazuki as a romantic partner, and Asuka as a rival. This is why she can “end the experiment” with such deceiving calm. She understood that this is hurting him, and she doesn’t want to do this to him. Her pain will follow afterwards, and it will be every bit as confusing as the sweeter feelings before.

   > Even without Asuka telling Eriko about how she’s
   > simply toying with Kazuki’s feelings, I think she
   > might have realized this already, which is another
   > likely cause as to why she’s distancing herself
   > from him.

   I’m convinced that it never was a conscious “toying”. It took her Asuka to realize that this might have been an involuntary sideeffect of the “experiment”.

   > She was struggling with loneliness, jealousy, guilt,
   > and other pent-up frustrations that she’s probably
   > hiding beneath her expressionless façade.

   Guilt for what? Frustrations? I don’t see evidence for either. She’s looking and acting _confused_, not guilt-ridden or frustrated. Not even when Asuka unleashes her fury at her.

   > Asuka on the other hand, lacked some
   > understanding in the way she dealt with Eriko.
   > Jealousy got the better of her.

   Asuka doesn’t understand Eriko’s perspective at all. Then again, how could she? Since she pretends not to have her own interests, she never talked about Eriko to Kazuki in any reasonable depth. And she misunderstood Eriko’s emotionless replies as cold “toying” with Kazuki’s feelings, letting her frustrations and anger lash out at Eriko. While the overall thought she communicated was right (”Don’t you realize that you’re hurting him this way??”), her conclusion (Eriko is a conniving cold bitch) was wrong. And it didn’t reflect very well on her character that not only she meddled in what definitely was not her business, she did it dishonestly, pretending not to have her own interests. It’s been an understandable “blown fuse” reaction caused by a misunderstanding, but it was still ugly in my point of view.

   > She should’ve known that Eriko lacks some sense
   > of normalcy, which is why she shouldn’t have
   > questioned her intentions for the kiss and the
   > experiment.

   She should have been more honest and admitted that she liked him too (this “too” might have given Eriko a valuable clue), and I agree that she was a bit hasty judging Eriko. But - as we all should know - jealousy is a powerful emotion ^_^;

   > Talk about some disparity between her and Eriko…
   > Asuka’s actions showed nothing else but a lack of
   > understanding of both Eriko, as well as Kazuki’s
   > feelings. This felt like a déjà vu of some sort, as I
   > recall a similar Asuka x Eriko incident in the library
   > before.

   You’re right, come to think of it. I hadn’t even looked at it this way before

   > Only this time, it’s far more fatal, considering the
   > piercing and painful words Asuka uttered, and
   > Eriko’s fragility at this point.

   Hehe… if my hunch is correct, she isn’t even “fragile”. Her decision to end the experiment was made with a deceptive calm. I’m convinced that she believes this to be the correct solution for everyone, and she expects things to return to normal in no time. However, she’ll soon realize that the pain won’t stop.

   In other words, I’d say she’s not “fragile”, she’s in love without knowing it. And she won’t find any inner balance again in the near future, until she understands her feelings more, and until they are properly resolved.

   > Hopefully, Asuka will reflect on what she’s done
   > and apologize to Eriko. I can already see hints of
   > guilt from her, after having said those words to
   > Eriko. Her actions were all from impulse anyways,
   > more than anything.

   The way I read Asuka, this would be the kind of conclusion I’d expect in the end, too

   Now it’s time for Kazuki to be DA MAN. Let’s see how he deals with things

   Posted by Mentar | January 31, 2008, 10:59 pm
3. 

   I feel for you usagijen. Not only feeling for Eriko, but also having to deal with while understandable some unsatisfying actions from Asuka.

   Honestly it’s been a rough time especially with this episode. Eriko was already on the edge of deleting Kazuki’s number and now this. Do agree its probably a combination of jealousy, maybe feeling that she was doing him harm and holding him back. Asuka probably just helped in her mind to confirm that.

   Of course maybe Mentar is right and she has only thought about that things had been feeling bad and she avoided contact for that reason. The shock with Asuka could have been at what she was saying and a new realization coming to her mind or the surprise at being grabbed like that. I mean she isn’t exactly involved with physical activity much so people grabbing her probably wouldn’t be a familiar thing.

   Asuka will find out pretty quick that the experiments have been canceled and will see the effect on Kazuki. Can only imagine how depressed that guy is going to look. Can understand why Asuka did what she did. She was probably jealous herself at what had been going on and probably did feel like it could lead to Kazuki being hurt. Sadly with this kind of situation its not that someone was out to hurt the others, but the results aren’t very positive.

   How Kazuki acts going forward is up in the air. Will he try to establish contact with Eriko? Will he just pull back into a depressed state, get angry at Auska if he finds her conversation had something to do with it? Just a lot of questions that makes you curious, but a little worried at what is coming.

   Posted by FlareKnight | February 1, 2008, 4:00 am
4. 

   Going with what FlareKnight mentioned, I think when Kazuki finds out about Asuka’s role in Eriko’s decision to end the experiments, he would most likely get angry at Asuka for butting in.

   Considering that Asuka is clueless about the real situation behind Eriko and Kazuki and her impression of Eriko, I think her outburst was quite justified in the sense that she was just looking out for someone she cares about. She acted rashly, yes. She could have talked to Eriko calmly. She probably acted without thinking first. But like what Mentar mentioned, jealousy can be a powerful emotion.

   Posted by hazy | February 1, 2008, 8:16 am
5. 

   My heart on director’s hand, So sad .

   Posted by Rev | February 1, 2008, 12:39 pm
6. 

   @Stripey: I actually think Yuumi looked a little worried back there, or I’m just thinking too much o__o

   I wouldn’t really mind Mao “using” Kai to forget about Kouichi, so long as she doesn’t get consumed by emoness and be willing enough to forget Kouichi, and learn to love Kai for who he is.

   And I think I’m prone to being Asuka-like at times… jumping to conclusions like that. So yeah, it’s understable, but still shows how she doesn’t really know Eriko.

   @Mentar: I’m glad to hear your unfailing defense of Eriko, I really gain a lot of insights from it

   regarding what I mentioned about her “insecurity”, I think what came into my mind was still more of jealousy, with a mix of insecurities regarding her own feelings. I actually wondered if Eriko might have thought that she’ll be better off discontinuing the experiment, so Kazuki can go on with his life as usual… be all cheerful and friendly as he is with Asuka…

   and all the other ones I said, were assumptions of the feelings Eriko might have felt during those times. Feelings that she might be keeping, we can’t really say for sure. It could be possible that she was having an unconscious sense of guilt, and came into terms with the how and why of this feeling when Asuka told her about it. It’s also possible that her inability to comprehend her feelings led to a little frustration, which is of course yet another emotion she’s not aware of.

   I still stand by my claim regarding Eriko’s fragility, in which I was referring to how vulnerable she was to some specific external stimuli, like when she saw Asuka and Kazuki together, or when she heard those words from Asuka. She was greatly affected by these events, which filled her with unpleasant and confusing feelings. This finally led her to end the experiment, not wanting to feel any more jealousy and hurt (which she still hasn’t come into terms with), but she will later on find out that pushing herself away from Kazuki will just make things worse.

   As for Asuka, I also didn’t like how she kept her feelings, and sort of whitewashed her behavior towards Eriko with that… =/ She wiped her hands clean, and made it seem like there’s nothing in it for her, when there’s that undeniable self-gain motivation in her actions, even if it’s only 20% or less.

   @FlareKnight: All those questions are running in my head too, ever since the previous episodes actually. I think there’s a great chance that Kazuki might lash out on Asuka, the moment he finds out about what she’s done. And, this might just be the triggering factor to a sudden “Asuka confession”… just a few more days and the wait (for the next episode, at least) will be over @__@

   @hazy: there’s no denying that Asuka’s action was reasonable. But it could’ve been better if she outright told Eriko that “yes, I like Kazuki, which is why I don’t see him getting hurt because of you!” kind of thing… .___.

   Posted by usagijen | February 2, 2008, 1:16 am
7. 

   Well, KK17 came and went - and Asuka continues to lose cookie points with me (As does the KimiKiss anime in general, since the time allocation continues to be 4:1 Mao-rectangle:Eriko-triangle, very disappointing to me)

   Asuka did realize that her intervention broke Eriko-Kazuki up (”It was my fault”), but neither did it get her to apologize/mention it to Kazuki, nor did it get her to contact Eriko either. This doesn’t mean that she won’t eventually do so, but sorry - I think you guys put her on a piedestal which is way way too high for her.

   I also feel a little bit vindicated for one more issue I pointed out in the past: Asuka cheerily tries to raise his spirits when she’s talking about Kazuki’s chances to be come a starter for the soccer club - but, brutally put, Kazuki doesn’t care at all: His thoughts are still with the breakup. That’s why I still believe that the Eriko-Kazuki pairing is fundamentally more sound than Asuka-Kazuki: Asuka wants to shape him to become her ideal partner, a soccer crack who is seriously striving to get ahead in soccer. Basically, a male Asuka. But for whose sake? Really Kazuki’s? Or not rather her own? However, this is not where Kazuki’s interests REALLY lie.

   Eriko on the other hand does not try to “alter” Kazuki, his interests and his plans. Instead, Kazuki wanted to help HER to get out of her isolation - and certainly with more patience and less intrusive compared to Asuka’s activities.

   To sum it up, I’m feeling frustrated that even so late in the show, so little time and effort is being spent on the triangle. I definitely hope that this changes REAL SOON NOW, but I’m beginning to doubt it. And this will rob us of the character development we’ve seen in rare traces.

   A pity.

   Posted by Mentar | February 3, 2008, 4:40 am
8. 

   @Mentar: that’s just… sad… sigh… T__T

   Posted by usagijen | February 3, 2008, 1:31 pm
9. 

   I think that usagijen and Mentar have a good handle on the Eriko-analysis and I also agree that there hasn’t been enough Eriko-time on the show lately. More time is needed to flesh out her character and give us the answers we want in order to understand her, and her ongoing emotionalstate. At least KK18 finally gave us a little Eriko-history, but not the whole story; there has to be more to it. Even though many things adults think are trivial, are much more important to a child and can affect them in many ways, even later in life, that would not affect them as much or at all if they had occurred in adult life. The absence of her mother after early childhood is also key to her story. She may have some abandonment issues, in addition to feeling betrayed, teased, ignored and ostracised, contributing to her condition.

   Eriko has had an emotional awakening as a result of her interaction with Kazuki, and with recent events she has come almost full circle but is too far gone to go back. I also believe that she purposely targeted Kazuki in the first place, not just random chance as she stated to Asuka, even if she wasn’t fully aware of it at the time. A science whiz with an IQ of 190 can surely make a paper airplane go where ever she wants it to. Eventually she began to venture out among people more… lunch, swimming, class assembly, taste tests, soccer practice. Her reactions to Kazuki before the fallout are also far too telling to ignore. She would smile and even show a little excitement at times although she probably was not even consciously aware of it. Her television viewing choices also appear to have changed. Most likely, she used to watch things like the science channel and news, now it’s weather and vacation options just to name a couple.

   At this point, Eriko is on the virge of an emotional realization which is becoming more and more confusing, and thus frustrating, to her as these unfamiliar feelings emerge. Distancing herself from Kazuki will not reverse the process, it may in fact continue to advance it. Those feelings are already surfacing and she will undoubtedly feel unsettled, unhappy, and unable to return to her previous state. Before, she was neither happy nor unhappy, just existing without emotions, even afraid to feel joy for fear of pain. She set into motion a chain of events that has resulted in her rushing headlong toward the inevitable catharsis that could either snap her out of this self imposed isolation of hers or send her spiralling down to the depths she feared the most. With any luck, Kazuki will be there when it happens, if not, hopefully she will reach out to him for help and support, otherwise she could easily flounder in the resulting confusion and frustration in her upwelling of emotions.

   In the end, Eriko wasn’t happy being the way she was and these experiments were the only way she could think of to do something about it, even if it was more of a subconscious decision than an act of choice. In spite of the fact she believes that it is best to stay alone than to suffer the pain of emotions that result from human attachments, she was driven to do something about her situation anyway.

   Do you think we are all over analyzing this? I doubt the creators of KimiKiss went this far in character development. LOL! Well, it’s fun trying to figure out why an individual is the way they are, even if they are fictional.

   On a side note: I think Kazuki sees Asuka more as a sister than as a lover, so I just don’t see anything happening between them beyond their friendship. Mao is likely to cause some ripples between Kouichi and Yumi but I think their relationship is solid. Kouichi might even do something stupid now that Mao has spilled the beans, but in the end, I think she will go back to France alone.

   Posted by Jauken7 | February 14, 2008, 2:41 pm

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