Anime
My Moe-mpathy for Taiga (and Lack of Sympathy for the Novel/Manga Elitists)
I want a Palmtop Taiga plushie *___*
So I watched two episodes of ToraDora, and found it awesome. Ironically, the Taiga HATE I’ve seen in the anime community prior to watching made me all the more willing to check it out, enjoy it, love it, and well now, blog it too. Troll genes triggered? I don’t know myself, but for sure, I didn’t enjoy it and love it simply for the sake of being different — to be set apart from the ToraDora / Taiga haters and whatnot.
Perhaps one of the greatest ‘advantage’ I have with ToraDora is that I haven’t seen other J.C. Staff shows featuring similar tsundere characters that people have come to hate, so it’s like I’m a tabula rasa in terms of my perception of this character archetype, and also free from typecasting biases. Then again, I highly doubt tsunderes would rub me the wrong way, unless I find them really stupid and unreasonable — two traits which I don’t consider Taiga to have. Well yes, her super tsun-mode might seem unreasonable, especially when juxtaposed with Real World standards, but I really think this series can justify that well. Not to mention tsuntsun characters like Taiga can really spice things up in a series. Ryuuji is quite a tsundere himself, but I’ll delve into that in another post.
Face the wrath of the Taiga, RAWR
I remember Luppy say that there’d be something wrong with me if I don’t get to hate Taiga, and well, I didn’t. I liked her, found her moe and cute, and just awwsome (my fellow chef Seleria thinks so too). To each his own, and I guess I have quite some tolerance for tsunderes, or I’m just really fond of feisty females in general. And, as I’ve said in my MAL blog post:
“I’d rather see a tsuntsuntsun-dere (as Luppy calls it) character develop into someone awwsome, than see a stupidly derederedere tsun-poser character who seemed all awesome in the first few eps only to undergo less than 0 development throughout the series (yes, my Kotoko/ItaKiss HATE is still running in my veinsss)”.
I don’t think I’ll ever get over my ItaKiss hate any time soon (people, especially guys, I challenge you to make a post in defense of Kotoko so I can mellow down, at least a little), but that’s another story.
Despite my seemingly bias for tsunderes (and Taiga or ToraDora as a whole), I still don’t think we should let this show pay for the sins of its forefathers (particularly Zero no Tsukaima and Shakugan no Shana), just because it was produced by the same studio, features a similar tsundere character (or even more tsuntsun?), voiced by the same seiyuu as the character we have come to hate. Perhaps typecasting is inevitable if we hear the seiyuu all too often, but are we going to let that affect our enjoyment, and hate a show which we could’ve loved if only we get over that trivial aspect? In the end it all boils down to choosing whether or not enjoy a series and get past those “flaws”, I guess.
I haven’t watched Zero no Tsukaima and Shakugan no Shana, but I have this lingering impression that ToraDora has far more depth than these two (or that it will develop to have much depth, considering that I’ve only seen 2 episodes). The stream of consciousness aspect of this show makes me positive about that. Not that I have a fetish for this or anything, but I find myself easily attached to animes which make use of these internal thought monologues.
The Taiga hate kind of reminds me of the hate for Ayano way back when Kaze no Stigma aired. Then I read the novel, saw her depth, ‘hated’ GONZO, but still loved Ayano, as the image of her in the anime and the novel was reconciled in my mind. Despite how GONZO butchered Kaze no Stigma, I can’t bring myself to hate them to the guts either, because at least, they brought the characters to life, albeit without much justice. I can’t just continue sulking and mutter “It would’ve been better if another studio picked up Kaze no Stigma” or “It would’ve been better if the anime was not made, if it was just gonna turn into a trainwreck” blah blah blah. The anime has been made, and that’s that, either you watch it with an open-mind that’s willing to see both its good and bad points, or you continue on proclaiming that it’s a total adaptation failure and hate the anime, hate the studio or whatever. Love or hate? Your choice. One thing for sure is that if you dwell too much on the negatives, you’ll surely miss out on whatever good the anime adaptation has. And yes, Michael, you’re one of the people I’m referring to here, you manga elitist / Taiga hater! >=[
Anyways, I’m digressing too much from my intended ‘tone’, so to end this post on a happy note, I’ll mention a few more things about ToraDora.
Bias for tsunderes aside, I really like the whole ‘there's more to this guy and girl stereotyped to be scarily intimidating’ [reverse KareKano-esque] premise of ToraDora. It makes me see the clear direction this show is going to take, which, albeit predictable, is something whose execution I’d be more than willing to witness in each weekly episode. Watching merely 2 episodes of ToraDora already made me feel warm and fuzzy, and I guess this show will get even better as it goes along — when more developments in the characters and their inter-relationships happen, together with other enjoyable antics of the characters 
Popularity: 5% [?]
Related posts:
filed under: Discussion
42 comments for “My Moe-mpathy for Taiga (and Lack of Sympathy for the Novel/Manga Elitists)”
Trackbacks
Post a comment
The Rotating Blogroll
I’ll put a good word in for Taiga too
I think she has more dere moments (like when she confessed) than a lot of tsundere characters, who seem to just be tsun-tsun until the very end. I wasn’t expecting to like this show at all, but I’m enjoying it so far. (I’ll be honest, though, I’m not so fond of Minorin.)
I am going to label myself as a hater of Taiga, only because I hate the whole premise when I read the manga. Mind you, I love tsunderes but not the kind Taiga is. That said, her dere moments do get special but her tsun-tsun fits are just way too annoying for me to tolerate. It’s tsundere, not annoying-dere.
I think Itakiss as a comedy is easily defensible when you start suspending belief on the plot and characters. Kotoko is downright detesting though, and I have argued with Thirteensugars for a long time about her. She likes Kotoko for her perseverance. I called that blatant stupidity.
Take a look at live action Taiga on my site lol.
This show is pretty alright, though Kugimiya Rie is getting too typecast for her own good.
I too think there is something different about this show that makes it not quite like the usual Rie Kugimiya tsundere comedy. For one thing, they get the dere moments much earlier, like in episode 2, and she’s not voicing it in quite the same way as she did Shana or especially Louise. There seems to be more attention paid to things like character for a change.
@Senna: well according to my friend Seleria, Taiga is by far one of the more mature tsunderes out there, people just have to see past her tsuntsun-ness, or rather, see what it really is that triggers her bitchy side.
I’m not fond of Minorin myself, but according to the ones who read the novel, she’s gonna undergo quite some character development later on, so I’m looking forward to that
@Impz: Well if you hate the premise then you’re bound to hate the entire series, and you have your own reasons for hating that so I won’t convince you about this anymore. Though, I think the reason why you’re so annoyed about Taiga is because you’re not able to empathize with her, and that’s also why you can’t understand why she’s being all tsun in the first place?
To each his own tolerance to tsunderes, I guess. Though I personally think I’ll have more difficulty liking Louise than Taiga. And if you’ve watched ZnT and liked Louise, well, I don’t know anymore.
Glad to see that we both agree on Kotoko’s stupidity. Those are the kind of girls I can’t get to like, sigh T__T
@tj: lol! I read that post but never got to comment. Still, Taiga > that 3D version
Well at least Kugumiya got a not-so-tsundere role in AkaSaka, too bad it’s in a sucky anime =/
@Mike: another thing that’s most notable about this series is that we get to pry inside the mind of the tsundere this time around, with Taiga’s stream of consciousness and all (in the first part of episode 1, and last part of episode 2). Looking forward to more of that
Everyone was looking forward to this anime.
I never really thought of trying to watch it.
But a few days before the anime aired, I was like “Oh well, I guess I’ll give this a try.” Then I checked the site and saw the characters. I pointed at Taiga and said “Tsundere. Definitely.” -pouts-
I was never fond of short, moe, tsundere characters…as I found the char in Zero no Tsukaima far to irritating even though it was just the first episode. :’[ (also..it’s true…why does Kugimiya-san always have to voice these tiny characters? O_o)
But, Taiga, in the first episode didn’t give an annoying tsundere at me. x’3
It felt different and I came to like her as I continue to watch the series. I also sympathized with her because of her problems…so yea. :’3
(Btw, I’ve not watch Shakugan no Shana myself. xD)
I do like KICK-ASS female characters, but short, moe types never appealed to me.. :’/
But, yea..Taiga is definitely, to me, a likable character. ^_^
/agrees with tj
I love Taiga, she reminds me of my vicious demon overlord neko. Particularly, I love how dere she is in the anime towards Minori[n] ~<3
Anyway, I read some of both the manga and novel, and I’m pleased with the adaptation [and the fact that it looks like a double-season showing, DIG DEEP INTO THE NOVEL SERIES PLEASE, JC!].
I think most ppl who hated on Taiga hadn’t read the sources, but most ppl who hated on Toradora probably did. Anyway, it’s good to see this production doesn’t have anything to do with fantasy or shounen…. it’s a little more down-to-earth
It’s not fair to judge Taiga based on the manga or the novels. That’s one Taiga, this is another, which may or may not be the same. All I know is the anime, and I like this KugiRie tsundere better than the other three (Shana, Louise, Nagi) because she seems deeper and realer. Her tsuntsun may be crazily intense when it comes, but I get a feeling of something behind it from her other moments. That being said, I found episode 3 a bit of a let-down and hope it isn’t a harbinger of worse to come.
Why do we have to refer to characters as “tsun” or “dere” anyways? >_<
I was actually all geared up to hate ToraDora and Taiga once I heard she was being voiced by Rie Kugimiya (Up until that point I was looking forward to it), but something in the first episode caught me by surprise. I still haven’t gotten around to watch the second episode (because I wanted to read through the manga version really quickly), but I think it’s because you can tell she’s kind of lost like a little kid and…that’s just freakin’ adorable.
I think I remember Ryuuji saying something like that in the manga too actually. Just minus the fangirling over how adorable she is.
Anyway, adorableness alone isn’t enough. Right away I realized that there was some definite room for character development unlike ZnT (three seasons of nothing). And I can watch plenty of EXTREME tsuntsun Taiga to see her grow up. It’s fun to watch the really messed-up characters develop into really great ones anyway.
I haven’t read the manga nor do I keep up with the voice actors or studio information. I wouldn’t say I hate Taiga but she’s certainly not winning points with me. I like feisty females too but there’s a difference between being feisty and being a dog of a female persuasion. In my eyes, Taiga the character is the latter.
My main concern is that the original source material had Taiga as an atypical (for these degenerate days) tsundere; she wasn’t in love with the other main character, and while she can be verbally abusive she knows when to back off and offer sympathy or understanding. Episode 3, which is the first filler episode, basically takes that all away to make her a jealous little bitch who attacks Ryuuji at any opportunity, and is just a whip and pink wig away from Louise the psychobitch who would cut Saito’s balls off for even walking through the air another woman had been through a minute ago.
Here, she’s very physically abusive when she wasn’t before – sure, she beat Ryuuji down verbally but knew when to back off and indulge the guy who basically is giving her a family and understanding she gets from NOBODY else; not her best friend Minorin, not her love-interest Kitamura, not the cold parents who basically neglect her… and certainly not the rest of the school which treats her with a mixture of fear and apprehension. Ryuuji (and his mom) are the only people who see her as she is; Aisaka Taiga, a girl who has a bit of a temper issue and who lives an incredibly lonely life because she’s never been around people who don’t have a preconceived notion of her, or who understand why she’s so moody and ill-tempered.
There’s a problem when you tamper too much with the source material; you may end up displeasing both people who came into the anime from the manga/novels and were expecting an atypical tsundere, and you may end up pissing off people who go into the related manga/novel with the expectation of the typical tsundere and find that she isn’t. The way things were edited is an issue; Episode 2 was changed into what was basically a confession to Ryuuji instead of a confession to Kitamura which also had something that sounded like a confession to Ryuuji. Episode 3 took a one-off scene in the novels and manga (where Taiga’s been indulging Ryuuji by allowing herself to be dragged along to the family restaurant where Minorin works every day the past few weeks, so he gets to spend time with her outside of school), and then turned it into something which had potential (Ryuuji and Taiga forced to spend more time together while the clumsy ojou discovers what part-time work is like) into a plot that wouldn’t have been out of place in the Zero no Tsukaima anime… complete with
SaitoRyuuji getting his face kicked in when he’s with another girl, which pisses offLouiseTaiga.At least in the manga and novels she shows a sense of restraint regarding her temper and Ryuuji (she won’t necessarily hit him if she’s pissed off, but she WILL make his life hell in minor ways), and she’s growing up there. Taiga here looks like she’s about to go into the stagnant psycho-moe which Louise of the ZnT Anime embodies… which in turn bears little resemblance to the series of light novels it was derived from.
Seriously – if you’re going to change the characterization this much, why bother using the name and setting at all? You may as well develop an original property. The risk this runs is, if it follows the usual J.C. Staff ‘tsundere derailment’ path is that it could damage the manga and light novel property which it is attached to; people who didn’t like what they got with the anime (or who liked what they saw in the anime, but hate the manga and novels for being different) could conceivably stop buying the merchandise or voting it in popularity polls… which would doom the franchise. The way the To-Love RU anime was greeted, and the way the manga (seems to have) declined in popularity as a result is one possible future for the ToraDora series… and one that I don’t want to see happen, but which J.C. Staff so far seems determined to create.
Seriously, they rush through all of the first novel (and first volume of the manga) and then create filler for episode 3? Of a 26-episode series? Would it have killed them to spend more time with character development, to fill out that space? Minorin didn’t get much development here at all… and neither did Taiga, IMO.
Oh, and that stream of consciousness thing is gone by Episode 3, and should’ve been used more in Episode 2. J.C. Staff, when they’re winging the script, really seems to… falter.
Haesslich is being his old critical self, but he does make a valid point; messing with the source material too much will turn off a LOT of people, casual viewers and source material fans alike.
I never read the books or the manga (with the Financial sector crunch, I’m forced to skimp on stuff not connected to my Desktop PC and Warhammer), but even I felt that something was ‘off’ with the Toradora adaptation. It’s still enjoyable, but there’s always the nagging feeling I get in the back of my mind that something’s up with the scenes.
Myssa Rei: I can accept adaptations – I prefer faithful translations, but adaptations work as well; witness Mahoraba, ironically a J.C. Staff production from the glory days of Azumanga Daioh. Adaptations stay faithful to the feel of the original, and don’t try to ‘put a new spin’ on the story just because the director’s feeling antsy. Hidamari Sketch and its sequel adapt and take liberties with the manga, but they too feel like the original.. taking what works, and then adding things that complement it. Mahoraba had a few filler episodes and an ending which matched the mood of the original manga… and indeed, the original author of the manga seems to have taken some pages from the anime when it came time to close the story.
And then you have Negima the anime, which was so bad that even Ken Akamatsu (who is usually paid to praise the anime, no matter how horrible it gets) publically expressed his disappointment with it, and which resulted in the replacement of the director and the license going over to another studio for several reworks, culminating in Ala Alba which Akamatsu had direct input in and which is reportedly the best Negima anime to date. The first Negima anime shared only the names of the characters and the general setting, with even the character designs getting tinkered with, and the story done so badly that they had to change directors three times. About the only decent story which came out of it was, funnily enough, an anime-original one explaining the ‘origins’ of the ghost-girl, Aisaka Sayo. It was the only one of the stories which probably didn’t offend fanatic fans of the manga and had the best writing of all the episodes, as it didn’t even pretend to be about magic and mages; it was a story of a girl and a garden.
If you look at antenna.animeblogger.net or several forums, you’ll see a lot of reviews where people who haven’t read the manga or the light novels have blasted the anime for being ‘typical tsundere’, with Hinano of the ‘I have sat through all of Zero no Tsukaima’ fame declaring that she’d given up on the show with the first episode as it felt too much like Zero no Tsukaima with a wrathful loli. There are others who post about how it looks like ZnT, but which praised the somewhat more entertaining aspects of it which felt ‘more original’ than typical tsundere stories. Very few are arguing ‘It sucks! It’s nothing like the manga!’ – they realize this is an adaptation. Given that the original premise of the series was to have a more emotionally balanced tsundere… it seems that either everyone missed the point, or the writers and director failed in the execution.
I also feel compelled to point out that episode three lacks ALL of those original elements in episodes 1 and 2; no self-reflection monologues, more violence towards Ryuuji than existed in the first two episodes combined, and a cliche situation (locked in a shed) which ends with Taiga attacking Ryuuji because he’s locked up with Minorin, even though she’s shown no such jealousy towards Ryuuji’s attentions to the girl even at the start of the episode. Or, for that matter, in the original source as of the first four or so volumes. The situation in question feels just like a rework of an unaired Zero no Tsukaima episode idea.
Or I could point to episode 2’s confession, which confused quite a few people with what Taiga was trying to do or what the director’s purpose was… but I’ve gone into that in detail elsewhere.
Suffice it to say that they got confused because of the order of the confession, as well as how it was handled. Yes, it’s great that Taiga confessed… but then Kitamura’s response either got labelled ‘asshole’ or else ‘cruelly dense’ with some people comparing Kitamura’s lack of personality in this show so far to Karasuma of School Rumble infamy.
If you don’t see this as a problem, then so be it – but given that everyone else on the Internet seems to think that this is a typical tsundere story, when the whole premise was that it wasn’t (atypical tsundere, more mature emotionally as your friend Serena declared her to be)… and then episode 3 is a filler which feels like a retread of an older series with a very flat (characterization-wise) tsundere? Not a good idea, especially given that episode 3 or 4 is usually where the decision point is for whether a viewer will continue to watch a show. There’s a reason most shows try to put their best face forward in the first couple of episodes… and J.C. Staff has FILLER for the third episode, and the fourth episode may not even introduce the last member of the cast (Kawashima).
on premise alone (i haven’t read it), i thought this show is pretty much more of the same and really didn’t expect much of it. when i saw the first episode, i really enjoy ryuuji’s character and was compelled to watch the show some more. i didn’t like taiga though. but the second episode totally redeemed her.
i’m looking forward to this show a lot.
Easy there Haess, I’m no longer sure that essay of yours was aimed at me or Usagijien anymore.
I did mention that I felt something nagging me when I watched Toradora, and it was more apparent in Episode 3; whether it is due to the ‘off’ execution or my womanly intuition telling me that, “Ah, that’s probably not in the light novel,” I can’t really say.
I’m still enjoying the show however, because of my wierd viewing expectations (which is to say, none, but you should know that by now), and because of my lack of any point of reference with regards to the source material — unlike Shana, Haruhi, Tsukaima (boy, did THAT flew off its rails), Seirei, or Index.
I was trying to show the difference between an adaptation… and something that we kindly call ‘derailed’, or in the current nomenclature, “trainwreck”.
Mahoraba was an adaptation; the original additions felt organic to the story, and were relatively normal. Negima! was NOT an adaptation – it only shared the names, and even the character designs got altered (which, I will note, happened to ToraDora the anime). Notice which one got praised by both fans and original author, and which one ended up going through three directors and two studios along with the (paid shill) author expressing their great disappointment. Minami-ke was an adaptation of the original manga, which earned fans. The current “Class of 5-2″ is… less so, and hasn’t even ranked in the ratings. Tales of the Abyss is doing well in the ratings, and is an adaptation of the game; Rosario + Vampire Capu2 isn’t… and doesn’t show up in the ratings at all, so low are the viewership numbers, especially after the (poor) reinterpretation that was the first seasion.
Shakugan no Shana was an adaptation, and in the second season tossed the relationship development out the window, but at least the characters were recognizably from the same source, but with more tsun-tsun. Zero no Tsukaima was… not; the second season onwards veered further and further off-course, to the point where the only thing they shared with the novels was the names, the general settings, and a few character designs.
ToraDora, I’m hoping, stays an adaptation. However, Episode 3 was… definitely not. Let’s hope that they don’t decide that this is the new direction to go with
That should tell you something.
Shana/LouiseTaiga. As it is, they’ve amped up her violence towardsYuujiRyuuji in an effort to cater to the ZnT fans. Her actions in Ep 3 were ones that wouldnt’ have been out of character for Louise, but were out of character for the Taiga we saw in the first two episodes. If this is the ‘new, improved’ direction they’re taking the show… man, but if people thought they hated Taiga already for being an utter bitch (there’s a lot of flames on Animesuki regarding this, due to the first volume of the novel)… well, we’ll see how high J.C. Staff can fan the flames. There’s already much hatred building up on blogs which I didn’t encourage.Correction: currently numbers for Capu2 are missing, but… well, from what I’ve heard over the net, it’s not doing too good.
Well, I don’t mind Taiga much. In fact, in a way she’s really adorable. She makes a good couple with Ryuuji because he’s caring and cute too!
@Wija-chan: aw, I’m glad you find her a likeable character… here’s to hoping she’ll grow on us more later on? hehe
@Ryan: glad to see you’re enjoying it despite having read the source material… I guess that takes quite a deal of ’stepping back’ from loving the source too much, to be able to accept all the changes =/
@hashihime: oh dear… I sure hope the series will redeem itself after that filled episode
@N: I blame Japan! Well it’s easy to make ‘comparisons’ by using those character stereotyping memes, but of course each character will have its own personality, beyond simply being tsun or dere.
@FuyuMaiden: that’s actually why I can’t get to hate Taiga, and never found her annoying. Her tsun moments are really cute, and way she keeps that tsun-poker face of hers is just adorable.
@Caitlin: perhaps reading the novel might help? Or otherwise. I can only hope that Taiga grows on you, though if you can’t get past being annoyed by her rude and abrasive behavior, well then, can’t be helped I guess
@Haesslich: the great disparity of opinions regarding this adaptation is making me want to check out the novels myself… well after watching the anime or in the middle to see what I’m missing out on. Though, hm… let me ask, are you mad at J.C.Staff for ’screwing’ ToraDora, especially because more people would’ve liked the anime had it remained faithful to the novel? Or perhaps because this adaptation does not live up to your adaptation standards? I felt the former when GONZO butchered Kaze no Stigma, but with ToraDora, well, I really think things could’ve been worse, especially if GONZO handled it.
With the way things are in the anime, with the now turned even more annoying Taiga, I guess it would require people to be more tolerant to her character, and be able to understand her. In my opinion, the ones who read the novel would serve as the best ‘bridge’ to show people what they’re missing out on, but still, leave the decision up to the ones who watch/read it. Opinions vary from person to person, and I think I’m the type who would want to reconcile the image of the characters in the source and the adaptation, to make things more fun and enjoyable. Sigh, why all the hate =___= I’m reserving my judgment on the entire series till it ends. Who knows, perhaps making Taiga more annoying than she was will give her character development a more dramatic effect! I don’t know really, but I’m just enjoying this series as it is, and that’s all that matters to me now.
@bianks: ah yes, episode 2 was just awesome. Things are not looking good for episode 3, it seems, and I can only hope things will get better after that…
@Myssa Rei: I’m willing to check out the source, if only to see what I missed out on, and still enjoy the anime as it is. It’s better that way, sigh =/
@blissmo: yes she is! Can’t we just love the bitchier Taiga in the anime? Sigh.
Usagijen: I’ve been doing some asking around (no, I will not visit Baka-Tsuki) and I’ve gathered that ToraDora has around 9 published books so far, with the latest just released this month. The people I’ve talked to do mention some slight disappointment with the anime, but so far they were on the fence until this episode, which apparently was… 80% filler. Apparently one short scene was padded out into one episode.
Hmm, the little Inquisitor in my head was right apparently.
Still, as I said before, I’m enjoying the show despite knowing zilch about the characters or the setting. I do wish that the physical violence between Taiga and Ryuji was toned down though, as it feels out of place. Really. I’m not a purist as Haess, but that’s how it felt. It’s violence for the sake of being bitchy.
usagijen: Both. I’m mad because I was going into the show with the expectation that there’d be something different (and let’s be honest – the most successful shows are either a twist on a tried and true formula, or else they buck the trend and thus represent a fresh view of things)… or else we’d just see Gundam Season 36, then Gundam Season 37, instead of “Gundam SEED”, “Gundam 00″, “Macross Frontier” and all those other mecha shows. Derivative works don’t get you very far these days, as nothing differentiates your show from the 50 other harem shows out there except the character designs. ToraDora, had it not been the (apparent) victim of executive meddling, potentially could’ve been completely amazing – your friend Seleria terms Taiga a mature tsundere… which she is, at least emotionally, in the manga. She isn’t a one-note character who knows only violence; she’s more nuanced than that, and knows when to give in and when to put her foot down. Ditto Minorin not being a complete airhead, or Kitamura a complete asshole. Ryuuji’s like the only character in the anime so far who resembles his manga and novel self… which is probably why you and Myssa Rei find him fascinating. Everyone else has suffered Flanderization to the point where they’re gag characters, good for only one thing; and the only character in the novels who resembled that was Yasuko.
As it is, episodes 1 and 2 brought something different to the Typical Tsundere scenario, especially with Taiga and Ryuuji unleashing their frustrations on that lamppost. However, Episode 3… isn’t episode 1 and 2, both in the falling animation quality as well as the faltering story. I mean, at this point in the series they should be trying to court new viewers by making it fresh and interesting… and instead, we get a plot that feels like a story that got rejected for ZnT. Not a good way to leave a first impressino on a viewer, and blog entries I’ve been reading have basically said “this episode is sub-par, and if it is an indicator of future stories is a reason to drop the show”.
At this stage, if they keep this up, they’re likely to have ZERO development of Taiga… and that means this show will effectively be Zero no Tsukaima, Season 4, In the Real World. At the very least, they could’ve made her bitchiness express itself in forms other than extreme physical violence towards Ryuuji – the novels get that part right, at least. How hard would it be to be witty? To judge by episode 3, the writing staff seems to have forgotten what ‘wit’ was. With their track record, I’m not all that hopeful anymore – certainly not as much as I was before episode 2 aired. They’ve taken the unique elements away as of episode 3 (the self-reflection, the mutual understanding that Ryuuji and Taiga share, the sense of family that ties them together as much as anything else – something that Taiga admitted to in episode 2 with regards how she felt in Ryuuji’s home), and replaced them with recycled plot… a stale, tasteless thing which does not fill me with joy, and makes me look at future episodes even more critically as a result. Basically, episode 3 is everything the first two episodes weren’t.
After all, the third episode in and they threw in crappy filler. THREE episodes in. This is not setting the bar very high for the show, and if this is how they intend to write Taiga, then we’ve lost a golden opportunity to prove that they’re more than just “The ZnT studio”. And, as noted before, To-Love RU seems to be in trouble as a property due to the horrific non-adaptation that the anime represented. Haruhi’s popularity took off with the anime, because it was successfully adapted (not copied, not done frame-by-frame, but adapted well). Let’s hope ToraDora follows more in Haruhi’s, or Lucky Star’s, footsteps rather than To-Love RU’s.
I’m not feeling very good about the show anymore. Expect more Taiga-level bitchiness in future responses, if this keeps up. Including “baka-inu” and “URUSAI! URUSAI! URUSAI!” Notice that this is me typing at 6AM, and I’ve been up for around 24 hours, and am completely asleep. Subconscious mind rants eloquently.
Myssa Rei: I think I said earlier in this post, or perhaps elsewhere, that this was a filler based on a throwaway scene of Taiga escorting Ryuuji (again) to the family restaurant so he could get some time to gaze at Minori. This was her being NICE to Ryuuji, which included buying the meal. Again. Every day for the past week or two. This was supposed to be the chapter where Ami Kawashima got introduced… and Kitamura showed up, to play Mr. Exposition.
Haesslich: Easy there comrade, it’s best if we avoid dropping tropes like Flanderization into a discussion like this. Think of the poor souls yet untouched by TV Tropes!
Pfah, wouldn’t you know it, an edit appears just as I post. Interesting… I shall try to be more observant from this point on, and see if my intuition can find more details that seem ‘off’.
Heh, Haess, you seem to be forgetting that “Hope is the first step to the road to Disappointment… Or rather, expecting too much from a series.
Yes, call me strange, but a blase attitude has served me quite well. As a result, I enjoy what I watch.
Of course, I still think that the violence is out of place, and aside from Ryuji, the secondary characters seem FLAT right now. It doesn’t detract much from my viewing however.
@Haesslich: This ToraDora anime/J.C.Staff hate running in your veins right now is becoming really bad for your health, seriously. Unless you want to be a masochist and continue watching the anime and hate on J.C.Staff, and want to go “haha, JUST AS PLANNED” when all this turns into a trainwreck, despite the stress it’s gonna cost you, well then, your call =/
And as Myssa Rei points out, expectations for any show, will ruin your enjoyment more often than not. I’d rather remain as novel-bias-free as I can at this point, and enjoy the anime if I can. I’ll check out the novels in due time, to further ‘enhance’ the ToraDora experience.
@Myssa-Rei: yes, that’s definitely the way to enjoy a series, especially adaptations like this. Disliking a character while still being able to enjoy the series shows true objectivity, my comrade (even though true objectivity only exists theoretically)
Myssa: I tried to go into this with low expectations. They ended up being “Episode 1: Didn’t suck as much as Rosario + Pantsu”, then “Episode 2: Didn’t suck as much as To-Love RU, but worrisome”. Episode 3’s basically been “Oh dear fucking god, they’ve gone dumpster diving in the ‘Ideas Rejected for ZnT bin’”. Episode 4 is where I’ll be drawing the line; if they can do the Kawashima introduction, and make her less than one-dimensional, I may keep watching. As it is, even you’ve pointed out that everyone (save Ryuuji) is flat, character-wise. For fuck’s sake, Japan, are you TRYING to become the next Hollywood, whose ‘creative products’ are so devoid of originality that NBC exeuctives have basically said ‘rip off anything foreign, since it’s more interesting than what we come up with’ in memos?
At this point, I’ve pretty much decided that the J.C. Staff stamp on any production means it’ll suck, no matter what – their last few seasons have been lackluster, and they’ve gone from being a middle-tier studio that did good work to the next Gonzo, but with a lower animation budget.
Here’s hoping Episode 4 doesn’t end with a whip, the way I suspect it will.
Ah, the joys of this site timing out on me while trying to edit. That was ABC which issued the memo, and I’m wondering why bloggers praise shows which are ‘original’ but then completely ignore them unless they incorporate the exact same thing they’ve seen fifty times before the exact same way. Damned sheep.
Is there any point to saying “I want something original, but I don’t expect anything new so I’ve lowered my expectations and will be buying this product which didn’t perform as advertised, because it wasn’t as disappointing as I thought it’d be”? Even Taiga’s turning into a one-note character… which is not, repeat not, a good sign for how things will end up, especially if they’re going 26 eps.
And “more than one dimensional” even. Damned edit keeps timing out.
Oh, Haess, Haess, you definitely need to just lie in bed for the weekend and REST! Sleep! Your essays are becoming less coherent arguments on the failings of adaptation, and instead are turning into angry streams of consciousness posts. Comrade, to borrow a pop culture phrase, chill out. We understand your frustrations at the adaptation, but short of burning down the JC Staff offices there’s really nothing we can do about it at this point. So why not just view the anime, for now, as a seperate entity for at least half a cour, THEN grab the source material and slam it for its shortcomings?
I mean, weren’t YOU the one who advised the MST30k treatment to me for reading Shinji and 40k? THAT is the definition of a scenario on illegal substances, and I don’t think JC Staff, despite their fumblings with Shana 2nd (half a season worth of original material) and utter failure with Tsukaima (total plot and characterization derailment), has arrived at that point yet. They still churn out good series.
Also, there is a difference between having low expectations and coming into a series with no expectations.
If you want more adaptation comparisons, I’ll be happy to do that after I’ve had some food. At this stage, I’ve written all I’m willing to write on the matter. Episode 3… seriously, they had 7-8 volumes of material to draw from when the show was being planned to work from, and they made Episode 3 (of 13 at the time the show was planned) a filler. This is no longer just an adaptation issue, but a serious failure at the level at the planning and directing levels. Flat characterization accusations, from people who’ve come fresh into the series, really… really don’t make the directing and writing staff look good, y’know? Usually the only time you run into this situation is when the property’s so new that you catch up with the available material and then have to make up new stuff because you got ahead of it… or you don’t have enough episodes for what’s available, so you pare it down by cutting out whole story arcs. Since when do you suddenly create new filler when you’re this early in the show and have that much material to work with?
As for viewing it as a seperate entity, this is like advocating that ‘because we’re utter failures, we should accept that we suck and not seek to improve upon it, because we’re so pathetic that we will never be better than this and thus shouldn’t even think of getting out of our rut’. Screw it. I’m giving it one more episode worth of watching, and then at that point if it’s like this episode was I’m walking away and declaring to anyone who wants an opinion exactly what I think of the show, and the people who mismanaged it, and the studio which produced that abortion of a series, etc, etc.
If anyone needs me, I’ll be with the former To-Love RU fans who abandoned the object of their fandom. At least KyoAni doesn’t try to deep-six what works when they do adaptations.
I still have hope in J.C.Staff! just saying >.<
But yeah, I agree that the right mindset of a studio should be to learn from their previous mistakes, avoid committing those “sins” instead… in any case, if this turns out to be a failure as an adaptation, well I’ll just accept that fact, while still be able to enjoy the anime as it is (hopefully). If the anime really goes downhill till the end, well then, we’ll know that the adaptation really really screwed up BAD.
Anyways, I do hope you get enough rest before episode 4 makes you go RAGEEE mode again >.>
P.S. my apologies that the edit function is going all tsuntsun on you, though I don’t exactly know what’s causing that >.>
J.C. Staff’s joined Gonzo in the ranks of ’studios that suck’ for me – even FEEL doesn’t do this badly. At least there the adaptations, as weird as they got, were (relatively) in the same ballpark as the original source as far as feel and story went. Of course, the last Feel production I watched was Otome wa Boku. Even if they cut the eroge, the feel of the show seemed to stay consisted with the manga and what I’ve seen of said game.
As far as adaptations go, KyoAni’s probably still the king of studios – but then again, they’ve done almost nothing but adaptations, so they’ve had much practice.
Consistent. ARGH.
Actually, screw episode 4. They have wasted a quarter of the show (if it’s still 13 episodes, or almost a sixth if it’s 25 episodes) and they haven’t even introduced all the main characters yet. Who was the idiot who planned this abortion of a storyline? Maybe I’ll borrow Krauser from DMC’s lines to describe what happened to the source material.
“RAPE! RAPE! RAPE!!!!”
Hmm. Maybe I’ll go Krauser on the staff of J.C. Staff someday…
Even I did not show so much hate to TS back then
@Haesslich: Hm, there’s a high chance that they’re going to make this 2-cour, if the rumors circulating is indeed true. Anyways, good luck to your Krauser Crusade, comrade. Too bad I won’t be able to join you because I’m all for peace and love. If the anime goes downhill and screws up really bad on the other hand, well, we’ll just see what’ll happen. I’m pretty sure my RAGE still won’t compare to yours
LOVE turned HATE is sooo much more deep-rooted, and just… total RAGE-filled. ^As you can see, Haesslich serves as the best example of that.
@blissmo: well blissmo, it’s because you didn’t really love TS to begin with
Let’s put it this way – if it isn’t on the road to 25, wasting FOUR eps and not bringing out all the main cast, as shown in the OP, is pretty bad pacing. Especially if it’s two eps of story and then 2 eps of filler. A whole quarter of a season. If it’s on the road to 25, they didn’t KNOW that when they planned this… and it’s still not the way to hook viewers.
Unless you’re trying to catch the ZnT fans who will buy anything, which means cutting out anything they’d find objectionable… like original content. At this point, I have no doubt that it’ll crash pretty hard by episode 6, especially given that they’re basically pulling the equivalent of a “Dune: House Atreides” treatment of the original source now.
Which, for those of you unfamiliar with the ‘new’ Dune books by Kevin J. Anderson, are summed up nicely by this Penny Arcade strip:
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2003/10/15/
Omni mentioned that 8 DVDs are set to be released for ToraDora, and given the normal episode format of at LEAST 4 episodes per DVD… We’re looking at 24 episodes Haess.
“at LEAST 4 episodes per DVD”
Uh… the last time I looked, Japanese DVD’s for anime normally have 2 eps per disc with the occasional one with 3. NOT ‘four’ per DVD – only in North America, where we’re spoiled and demand fewer discs, do anime companies routinely put 3-4 eps per disc. Or, to put it in perspective, I suggest going to CDJapan and seeing what Tales of the Abyss Volume 1 has: 2 episodes on the first disc. Ditto Macross Frontier, Sekerei, etc. And that would’ve left us with the first disc (or two discs) without all the main characters… which, in my view, is a problem when you’re trying to hook viewers.
It’s sorta like if, when KyoAni was adapting Haruhi, they decided to put in filler for episode 3, and then Episode 4 was all about Kyon’s loser friends with Mikuru or Nagato left unintroduced and unused. Slight pacing problem there, especially with how they rushed through one whole volume worth of story… and cut out some of the self-introspection parts from Ep 2, and Ep 3 was almost completely missing that.
I only have to say this anime and this character (as Louise and Shana) are the best of the best. I love her personality, the way he reacts every single time and especially…what i love more is she’s , actually, really similar to me D= that’s why i was tagged as “Tsundere girl” =o=
PS: Zero no Tsukaima and Shakugan no Shana are really good shows…why someone come to hate this anime because of its forefathers? Personally, i know a lot of people who have enjoyed ZnT and SnS ._. i think you have a wrong idea of thoses shows .-.